My girlfriend's horse behaves dangerously in the company of one particular horse

by Geoff Marshall
(Sussex England)

Hi,

I'm Geoff Marshall and I know little about horses but...

Here is the story of Karan and Spider.

Spider is a young male horse and his owner, my girlfriend Karan, is a long haul air hostess. She keeps her horse on her best friend's farm mostly in a box next door but one to her friend's horse. Who is called Zolash.

They are put out each day.

Karan is often away on trips for 5 days at a time and Zolash's owner looks after Spider during these periods.

Karan loves hunting (old English traditional style) but in the last few months if Zolash is present Spider starts to kick, jump, bite and is definitely dangerous to others and to Karan. He only gets this way in the company of other horses when Zolash is present and its like he cannot bear to be without Zolash as his only companion.

When they go on training sessions together (ie with no other horses present) Spider is fine.

I've read your intro page and am beginning to understand that this behaviour is probably a herd/dominance issue.

Possibly connected with Zolash getting regular attention from his owner all the time but when Karan is absent the amount of attention that Spider gets is reduced.

I wonder why Spider is exhibiting this behaviour, which means she is unable to go hunting with her best friend (Kerry, owner of Zolash).

If the horses are not together Spider is fine.

Zolash is unperturbed by it all and behaves well.

Karan, normally an uber confident person, in my view, has lost some of her confidence on horse back possibly because of the risk of getting hurt since this started happening and I suspect this doesn't help.

Can you help with any basic information that would allow us to better understand this.

Thanks

Geoff






Hi Geoff,

I could use a bit more information to unravel this situation yet I will try and decipher some of this.

Where I have some confusion is in your note you explain that Spider cannot bear to be without Zolash (which is separation anxiety) and then you mention that Spider is okay when not with Zolash or did you mean the other horses? What I need to know is under what circumstances does Spider seem to be okay i.e. when left in his stall? When left in the paddock outside? And describe a situation other than the outing where Spider is not happy when Zolash leaves. Are there other horses were they are kept too?

What age is Spider? This makes a big difference to understand his time line in experience. How long has Karan been his guardian and what do you know about his life prior to this? What I am after is learning about Spider's upbringing because I feel it holds the key here too to his behavior. I am getting the distinct feeling Spider missed out on some very important lessons about herd social life that only other horses can teach. And it really needs to be taught from the beginning of their young lives.


When horses are removed from their mothers either too soon or with too much emotional anxiety (which means they were just suddenly taken away from their mother) then if they are separated too often from other horses they do not learn how herd social order is played. It is the mature horses in a herd that supply most of this learning. Yet they also learn through play with other youngsters too. Just like our dogs, if they do not get socialization with other dogs or humans at an early age they can show aggressiveness because they interpret situations incorrectly. And of course the same is noted in human behavior when socialization at an early age is not experienced in a good way.

A horse being stalled is just like being alone even when there is a horse next to them. They are designed to have physical contact with each other. We humans think that we are providing better living conditions by bringing horses into a stall even if it's just for the night. The reality is horses instinctual needs are to be in the wide open spaces with other herd members 24/7 for the physical and emotional well being they supply to each other. The exceptions are when additional health care needs like additional meals or healing are required. The respiratory track of horses is also very delicate and stall environments are full of dust spores and other bacteria that contribute to poor health (often not seen with or naked eyes).

At the moment it appears Spiker does not have experience and social skills because he is bond attached to Zolash. Pair bonding is normal but there still should be more members to make up a comfortable herd structure. That way if a favorite member is removed they look to the next member for the comfort they need. To them there is safety in numbers!

Spider's aggressiveness when other horses are around is more about him defending his place (pecking order) than defending his friend. He feels his position is at stake and his overreaction tells me the lack of social experience he may be missing.

But this is also related. We need Spider to look to Karan under these conditions and outings for guidance, comfort and leadership. He currently is not looking to her when these situations arise that he finds threatening.

Our expectations of horses and what horses are experiencing and understanding are quite different. It's one thing to acknowledge "Karan Loves hunting", but what is then expected from Spider to understand and want this too?

I hope this offers you something to think about yet I really need more information to go further.
It's like peeling an onion, one layer at a time! :0)

Elaine Polny
Horses by Nature

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My girlfriend's horse behaves dangerously in the company of one particular horse

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Nov 01, 2011
Wow!
by: Geoff

Hi,

Thanks for the response. I really appreciate the time you have taken to write all of that.

I will reply shortly!

Geoff

Nov 01, 2011
More info
by: Geoff

Hi Geoff,

I could use a bit more information to unravel this situation yet I will try and decipher some of this.

Where I have some confusion is in your note you explain that Spider cannot bear to be without Zolash (which is separation anxiety) and then you mention that Spider is okay when not with Zolash or did you mean the other horses?


Geoff: Spider only behaves badly when the following three points occur together 1) with Zolash and 2) in the company of other horses on 3) the hunt


What I need to know is under what circumstances does Spider seem to be okay i.e. when left in his stall? When left in the paddock outside? And describe a situation other than the outing where Spider is not happy when Zolash leaves. Are there other horses were they are kept too?


Geoff: he is okay in his stall. he is okay in the paddock. He is okay in riding lessons with Karan on him and Zolash with Kerry in the same ring. He only misbehaves if Zolash is with him while out in company that he does not know. Yes there is one other horse in the stalls and they are fine together but separated by a couple of empty stalls.

What age is Spider? This makes a big difference to understand his time line in experience. How long has Karan been his guardian and what do you know about his life prior to this? What I am after is learning about Spider's upbringing because I feel it holds the key here too to his behavior. I am getting the distinct feeling Spider missed out on some very important lessons about herd social life that only other horses can teach. And it really needs to be taught from the beginning of their young lives.

Geoff: Spider is 6 and Karan has had him for 4 years. I think! He was formerly a trainee racehorse and I think was brought in from Ireland. Karan is on a trip to LA this week so I can't check.

Nov 02, 2011
More thoughts on Spider
by: Elaine Polny

I realized a word I missed when asking the questions: "What I need to know is under what circumstances does Spider seem to be okay i.e. when left in his stall?" What I was after was finding out if Spider is okay when Zolash is taken away and Spider is left "alone" (whether in a stall or in a paddock etc.) If he is okay, then the familiar environment is providing him comfort, if not then it's a herd social issue.

So it would appear that Spider's herd really consists of Zolash only. Meaning this is the only horse Spider has physical contact with. Has it been this way for the whole time Karan has been his guardian? Having got him at the age of 2, horses really need other horses and they will break down fences to get to them! And then they often bond strongly with another horse too, which sets the pace for other social experiences to come. Then there is the safety of his familiar environment. Spider is not completely comfortable off the property (without Zolash) and looks to Zolash for guidance/reassurance (instead of the rider). Plus because Zolash "is" his herd, he finds other horses a threat for his position that he holds next to Zolash. All completely normal stuff from a horse's perspective and experience.

Karan can help Spider through these situations but she will need to be willing to really see with his perspective which would likely entail some new learning on her part. It is apparent she is involved with old traditional methods of using horses. So in order for us to go further it would be best to have Karan familiarize herself with our philosophy and if she resonates what we do then we could offer more guidance directly with her.(pretty tough to guide through a 3rd party :0)

P.S. Helping to define some of the terms/words we use. Horses do not have the ability to "misbehave". They do have the ability through their emotional states to tell us how they interpret the information being supplied by us. And through experiences they will learn to adapt or manipulate their environments. This is why we chose horses to domesticate because they are masters at adapting but mostly because of their incredible ability to "remember experiences", good or bad!

P.P.S.S. Karan is lucky to have such a caring boyfriend who supports her horsey endeavors! Kudos to you!

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